Intro: [00:00:00] Hello and welcome to the Posers podcast, the place where we skip the fluff. Say the quiet parts out loud and dig into what really matters. This is where photography, psychology, and business collide. I'm Jody, your host, and I'm bringing you my raw takes, hard wins, and a whole lot of unfiltered honesty about what it takes to build a photography business that actually connects and makes money.
So ladies, grab your headphones and get your tits up and your ears open because we are going to build something really incredible together.
Jodi Hendricks: Well, hello, hello, hello and welcome back my beautiful posers to another episode of the Posers Podcast. I am coming to you directly from Turks and Caicos with this episode. I would love to say that I'm here just because I'm off gallivanting and enjoying some sort of glorious vacation that was planned, but that actually is not.
The case at all. We [00:01:00] ended up being in Turks and Caicos very. What's the word? Suddenly, maybe because my husband, who is such an incredible salesman for the company that he works for, he won this trip to Turks and Caicos and we didn't find out that we were coming until December or January or so, and here we are in February, soaking in the sun while my.
Skin is literally like screaming at me because it's pasty white and now it's some form of red that is going to be very painful for me tomorrow, but. while I've been here, I've been working the whole entire time and I taught the Mastermind yesterday and everything that we were going over during the Mastermind was email marketing, and it just happened to be that on the flight over, I was also reading a book about email marketing.
And so it, it's also a really, really, [00:02:00] really awesome book. It's one of my. Favorite business books that I've ever read. It's called Just Fucking Send It. And it's written by a guy named Ian Stanley. And I get, I mean, this is the first book that I've ever read of his, and I guess he's also a standup comedian, so his book is Half Parts Incredibly Entertaining and Funny, and then Other Half Part being that he is an incredibly successful email marketer.
So. The book in and of itself has been highly entertaining and highly fruitful in regards to learning about email marketing a little bit more. So if you are looking for a good book recommendation, that is a really killer book to be picking up. So I'm telling you all of this because it would very naturally happen that, because that's what we are talking about in the Mastermind, and that's what I'm reading about right now, that I would hop on here and record a little episode for you about email marketing.
But. And then I [00:03:00] had this crazy thought and I was like, you know what? We're in Turks and Caicos. The reason why we're here is because we're celebrating my husband, his company put on this whole entire event that was called the Masters of the Masters. 'cause they just had a recent I dunno, sort of convention conference sort of thing in Las Vegas that was called the Masters where a lot of the company showed up and learn a bunch of sales tactics.
But then now this is the masters of the Masters, so it's like the best of the best of their company, which my husband, I've now seen him go into three different companies and automatically become number one or number two globally for their company. And he is such. I'd call him a bad bitch, but he's such a bad bitch at sales.
I might get in trouble for that comment here in just a little bit, but I thought for the very first time ever, maybe I would allow for [00:04:00] mine and my husband's dynamic to show up. On the podcast just a little bit. Now, let me say this, before I let this man speak, let me say that this is the first time that a man is going to be introduced on the podcast.
And you guys know that I would not allow a man inside of this space if he wasn't already fully vetted. And found to be a through and through feminist and a supporter of the women and a supporter of the arts. And he is a man who absolutely loves what I do and loves what I have built. And I have never, I mean, granted, I've only been married to two men, but of the two, he has always been a huge supporter of my business and has been kind of like blown away by everything that we do as photographers and the businesses that we build. So with that being said, you guys know I would not let any sort of like toxic [00:05:00] bro energy come into this poser space. So without further ado, I would like to introduce you to not the sales guy, but like the sales guy, the one and only Mr.
Brian Hendricks.
Brian Hendricks: Wow. What an intro. What an honor though.
Jodi Hendricks: Well, first of all, I think that we need to tell them that your last name is not actually Hendricks No. Where? Tell tell the people where Brian Hendricks stemmed from.
Brian Hendricks: Well, we know. That there was no way you were taking my last name.
And there was a lot of talk about, well, you're gonna take my last name. Like meaning I would take yours.
Jodi Hendricks: There was, there was. And
Brian Hendricks: so it was just an ongoing joke
Jodi Hendricks: To give a little bit of backstory too I know I've talked about this on the podcast before, that when I went through my divorce, I made the decision to sort of go through that divorce [00:06:00] outwardly instead of inwardly.
So my audience. On Instagram and inside of my email newsletters and everything like that, the audience that watched me build my business, they also watched me go through the divorce and then watched me go on what I lovingly refer to as my slut spree. Are you comfortable talking about my slut spree on the internet?
Brian Hendricks: No comment, but I'm here for it. I'm here for you, baby.
Jodi Hendricks: So after I got divorced, so I was 19 whenever I met my ex-husband and I married him whenever I was 22. So whenever I got divorced, I went a little bit like. Not, I don't wanna say wild, because I don't think it was wild compared to anybody else's wild, but during the year that I was divorced and single, I had myself a little bit of fun, and I would often talk about those dates on my social media, and I would come out of the dates and I would basically like run them through the ringer of like what they wore, what they said, how.[00:07:00]
Awful. They were, or like one guy wore cargo shorts and he showed up late. And I was like, that's insanity to me. I would never, for one, put a guy in cargo shorts for two, nor would I date him. So I went on this little like spree of dating all these guys and it was very much so like a, a content pillar inside of my business of who I was dating that week and then all of a sudden.
Brian came along.
Brian Hendricks: I'm just terrified what you talked about after our, our date.
Jodi Hendricks: I actually never did so. Okay. So the very last story that I put up on social media was that I was on a flight, 'cause Brian and I had met over Bumble, but he didn't live in my city. And so. I was on a flight because you had flown me out to Phoenix 'cause you wanted to like go on a date.
And so I was on that flight and I put up a little story that said I'm on my way to Phoenix to go see about a boy. And then I never talked [00:08:00] about you.
Brian Hendricks: Mm-hmm.
Jodi Hendricks: After that. And all of the dating stories just like completely vanished and I kept you a big, huge secret for like, what was it,
Brian Hendricks: new Year's Eve.
Jodi Hendricks: No, it wasn't.
New Year's Eve, remember is whenever we were in Chicago at the did cause. Bar remember True. That was the first time that I like made a big deal about the fact that I gave you like a full face. Mm-hmm. On Instagram stories. And then I finally like let people know who I was dating because I met you and it stopped all the dating stories and then it was just literal radio silence.
It was crickets. Mm-hmm. So then I finally like introduced you to the audience and then. I dated you very publicly on my social media for the longest time, and they watched us date, they watched us get engaged, they watched us have to plan a wedding in Italy, cancel a wedding in Italy because of COVID, and then the following year get married in Italy.
So the reason why [00:09:00] also you're referred to as Mr. Hendricks is because. My audience has always kind of like followed the story,
Brian Hendricks: mm-hmm.
Jodi Hendricks: Of us dating and getting engaged and getting married and all of that. And I always referred to you as Mr. Hendricks because I wanted you to change your name at our wedding.
I wanted it to be be my wedding present, that you changed your middle name so that you were Brian Hendricks Gebel and I told you that if you did that, I would change mine to Jody Hendricks Gebel. And you didn't do it. You didn't do it. Hendricks
Brian Hendricks: is a pretty badass name though.
Jodi Hendricks: Hendricks is a really badass name.
And you really should think about changing it because
Brian Hendricks: it's, it's still out there.
Jodi Hendricks: It's kind of iconic.
Brian Hendricks: Yeah.
Jodi Hendricks: Okay. But I mean, not that we're gonna get into this like full blown like history of me and you. 'cause then me and you'll just sit here and like googly eye and talk about
like,
Brian Hendricks: I mean, I could do that too.
Jodi Hendricks: You could do that too. But you know, I'm not gonna do that. I'm gonna get like straight into business. So. Like I said before, my husband is a [00:10:00] sales, a sale, a, the one of those guys that they say like, oh, he could sell ice to an Eskimo. Like, I hate that saying, but it's actually true. And you actually started in sales.
How old were you whenever you started selling knives?
Brian Hendricks: Yeah, I was door to
Jodi Hendricks: door.
Brian Hendricks: It was a, a college gig, like a summer job. And it was for, yeah, not so much door to door, but you know, you get referrals and you, he hates,
Jodi Hendricks: he hates that I say it was door to door.
Brian Hendricks: Yeah, it's okay. It was, but it was my first exposure to like a structured sales process and training and.
Weekly meetings and accountability and and success doing it. And all of a sudden being a little 19-year-old, I made, I don't know, four or five grand in the summer, which for a college kid was awesome.
Jodi Hendricks: That's a lot.
Brian Hendricks: And that was my first taste of like, wait, I was good at that and I made some, some good money.
Like that was cool.
Jodi Hendricks: Yeah,
Brian Hendricks: yeah.
Jodi Hendricks: No, I love that. Okay, so here's the nerdiest thing about us. Is that because Brian's. [00:11:00] Obviously been in sales almost his whole, I mean, basically your whole entire adult life. Not that I wanna say like from utero, from from the womb, but because Brian's been in sales and then whenever I switched my business over to IPS, which obviously stands for in-person sales, then I got sort of like, I dunno, bit by the sales bug.
And for the last two or three years or so, I've been so incredibly obsessed with. Learning the sales process. And Brian is obviously like very natural because it's almost like it's something that he's been doing just his whole entire adult life. So it comes very naturally to him. But he is obviously always been selling in the same exact way.
And now over the last three years or so, since I've been learning to sell in that same way that he already knows, it's almost like. I come into this sales equation having a lot [00:12:00] of like book smarts and Brian comes into the sales equation having a lot of street smarts and he just sort of naturally fluidly does it.
And I still have to like really think about, I don't know, the frameworks and like the exact thing that you should say to roll objections and things like that. I'm still like a little newborn baby in it. And you are like. I don't know. An age geriatric.
Brian Hendricks: Thank you.
Jodi Hendricks: Right,
Brian Hendricks: question mark.
Jodi Hendricks: But because of that dynamic, there's a lot of times that like even whenever we wake up early and go for like a walk in the morning or even having conversations like before we're heading off to work or something like that, that we're talking about sales and that sounds.
Really incredibly nerdy.
Brian Hendricks: It's more me asking you honestly, because you bring insight and stuff. I've never even thought about, and I've even shared it in our morning meetings at work and people are blown away that that was my idea. [00:13:00] But of course I tell him it was yours, you know?
Jodi Hendricks: Do you, yeah,
Brian Hendricks: yeah, yeah.
Jodi Hendricks: Okay, so here, here's what normally happens. We go on like walks in the morning and he'll usually like throw out some sort of like scenario happened at work and he's like. There's this one that I remember that I actually love as a really good example because we were actually done walking and we were upstairs in the bathroom.
Remember? You were like getting ready for work and I was in the shower.
Brian Hendricks: Mm-hmm.
Jodi Hendricks: And you said to me that once. A person gets into the idea that their no is a no. That there, what was it? It was the one,
Brian Hendricks: the
testimonials?
Jodi Hendricks: Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was the guy who was saying that he had read some bad testimonials about your company and literally there's like one bad testimonial.
There's like two bad testimonials for your company 'cause you work for a really great company. But he had read like one of them and he had really gotten it in his head that he was like down and out. Right.
Brian Hendricks: Mm-hmm.
Jodi Hendricks: And you said to me that you felt like [00:14:00] once he was there he was locked in and he was like, done for and out.
Right. Do you remember that?
Brian Hendricks: Mm-hmm.
Jodi Hendricks: Is that kind of, how am I saying it correctly?
Brian Hendricks: Yeah. Yeah. I feel like once he had his mind made up, it would just be me trying to defend and, and just trying to grasp for his business. And he, he was set.
Jodi Hendricks: Yeah. That's what it was. Is you said that you were, that. Then you went into a place of where you were selling like features, right?
You were like, no, no, no, but if you, if you stick with us, you're gonna get this and you're gonna get this and you're gonna get this. And I remember like literally washing my hair in the shower and being like, I don't know, Brian, I feel like that's not the right play. And you were asking me like, okay, like what do you think?
Why was that not the right play? And we started to talk about the Crock Brain, which is taught inside of Orin KLAS book called Pitch Anything. And this is where this dynamic comes into play so much is because this was something that you had never heard before, right? Mm-hmm.
Brian Hendricks: Never heard of it.
Jodi Hendricks: Yeah.
Brian Hendricks: Yeah.
No, I mean, and, and to this day I still try to [00:15:00] use it ever since that conversation.
Jodi Hendricks: Okay. That's, that's really good. That's really interesting. Okay, so in talking about that, like I explained to Brian that inside of Orin calf's book, it's called Pitch Anything, and this is like something that can be used automatically inside of our sales rooms for photography is that.
Clients come in and that they are in , what is called the crock brain, which obviously shorts for crocodile brain, right? That they're coming in and a roc brain is like full of fear. So if you imagine literally like a crocodile being like a prehistoric animal and only being able to understand whether or not their life is in danger or their life is safe.
That's like the crock brain. So as they're walking into the sales meeting, they're in this place of like not really knowing what to expect, not really knowing how much is this is gonna cost, not really feeling comfortable with the whole scenario. So [00:16:00] they're in that fight or flight sort of mindset. And so there's a lot like deeper explanation to all of this too, but there's the crock brain and the analytical brain.
And then one other brain. Like there's a midbrain and then there's a logical brain. And then the emotional brain. Okay, so it's crock brain, analytical brain, emotional brain, right? And so the place that people buy from is the emotional brain, but they come in scared in the crock brain. And then whenever you get into some sort of a pitch, they go into the analytical brain, which is logistics, which is like spreadsheets, which is pricing, which is like thinking about their budget, thinking about their bank account.
But. Your job as the salesperson is to always get them into the emotional brain, the emotional buying space, because that's the place that they're always gonna make decisions. So. In Brian's scenario, whenever the guy was saying, oh, I like read some testimonials, and he [00:17:00] was going pretty hard at you. I remember he was like, this is a scam.
This is not gonna work. 'cause Brian sells dental implants. And so he was like an older guy. Do you remember where he was from?
Brian Hendricks: East coast, somewhere,
Jodi Hendricks: east coast somewhere. Older guy, just sort of like really being in his crock brain, really feeling like his alarm centers had gone up. He was terrified, he was scared, so he automatically went into that fight or flight spot.
Or even if he was in his analytical brain. Then I was saying to Brian that his job is to get him to go into. His emotional brain instead of trying to fight it with features. Mm-hmm. Then the play would be to go into the emotional space. So Brian does this like really incredible thing where he is so good about.
Really taking some time at the beginning of his like sales meetings in order to just get a feel for the person, understand what they love, what they don't [00:18:00] love. I feel like us as photographers, we already have. A lot of this because we already know our clients pretty well. We've been on a photo shoot with them.
We know what their kids are into. We know what their kids' names are. We know a lot of like personal details, but you have to do that like ahead of time. Right. So you wanna talk about what that process looks like I don't wanna say, it's almost as if you're like. Collecting ammunition for later, whenever they have objections.
But it
Brian Hendricks: mm-hmm.
Jodi Hendricks: Kind of is,
Brian Hendricks: it
is.
Jodi Hendricks: Right?
Brian Hendricks: Absolutely. it's all virtual what I do. So I have a very short window of time, virtually to not only get to know them, get to know their why, get to know their fears, what are they excited about, present, and then pitch the price, which is high ticket sales, and convince them to say yes.
Within 30 to 45 minutes. Again, virtually. So to your point, it's a lot of probing and asking, first of all, identifying what those objections are gonna be in the very beginning. So if you think about it, there's always pretty much two [00:19:00] objections, price or spouse and
Jodi Hendricks: Hold on. Wait, wait. Explain what that means.
By spouse.
Brian Hendricks: Yes.
Jodi Hendricks: Like what's the spouse Objection
Brian Hendricks: for sure. So if I just have one individual, we'll use this example, a husband. And one of my questions is, oh, where are you from? And, oh, what's your wife's name? And as soon as he says his wife's name, okay, boom. I know. Okay. She's not there with him.
There's most likely gonna be a spouse. Objection. So what I do is I start probing. And what I mean by that is throughout the conversation it's just like, oh, you know. Let's, let's call her Jody in this case.
Jodi Hendricks: Oh, I love that for me.
Yeah.
Brian Hendricks: Beautiful
Jodi Hendricks: name. Okay.
Brian Hendricks: Beautiful
Jodi Hendricks: name. Be beautiful name as you stare lovingly into my eyes.
Brian Hendricks: But I, I would say, I would say is, you know, man, it sounds like you've been doing a lot of research and it seems like you're really excited about this. What does Jodi think about this? Does she understand that you're excited too? And Judge, does she understand that the, the impact it's having right now on your life.
Because I wanna get as much you know, information about Jodi as I can. Is she supportive? Does [00:20:00] she even know that he's doing this? Is she on board with him making a big decision like this without her? So it's a lot of me probing and trial closing, if you wanna call it that.
Oh,
Jodi Hendricks: I love that trial closing.
Brian Hendricks: Right, right. Without being too obvious about it.
Jodi Hendricks: Yeah, like you're just sort of fishing for information, but at the same time you're really taking some notes down of like
Brian Hendricks: Yeah.
Jodi Hendricks: What their dynamic is.
Brian Hendricks: Yeah.
Jodi Hendricks: Which I feel like I do something similar, like in my sales script.
Whenever they come into the studio and they're sitting down and they're having the conversation, for one, I have the luxury of being able to send emails out beforehand and even have the conversation beforehand saying like, Hey. When you come in for your sales meeting, I need all decision makers to be in the room.
But you don't have that luxury? No. So I'm able to say like, Hey, all decision makers need to be able to like be in the room. But then whenever somebody's coming in and say, I normally would have like just a wife coming in or just the mom coming in, then sitting down having a quick conversation of [00:21:00] like, oh, okay, cool.
Like obviously if it's a family photo shoot, then the husband knows that the family shoot has like taken place. But. It could very well be that she did a motherhood session and that he doesn't even know, or it's a boudoir session and he doesn't even know. And so then having those conversations just as these little qualifiers of like, oh, okay, so does Brian know that you're here today?
Like, does Brian know that you did these photos? Did you tell him how great they are? Like getting those sort of like morals of information? Mm-hmm. Because. You're sort of collecting that information and know if they give you that spousal objection later, which what Brian means by that spousal objection is that once you get through the whole IPS meeting and you get to that pitch.
Then they would say, oh, I can't spend this amount of money without checking with my spouse first. And that's a really big objection that we get in our sales rooms too. I always talk about this, I always say that like, sales is sales no matter what company you're in. The framework is still the [00:22:00] same.
Brian Hendricks: Mm-hmm.
Jodi Hendricks: And that so this like translates straight over into what we do too, of like having that conversation and seeing whether or not. That objection is gonna come up later so that you already have the information ahead of time in order to roll it. So what that would look like is me having that conversation saying like, oh, hey, so you did this boudoir shoot.
Does Brian know that you're here? , Okay, cool. So what's the dynamic look like in your marriage? Is there a threshold you're allowed to spend? Have you guys had conversations about this ahead of time? Or even saying like, Hey, do you have to clear purchases through him at all? That way that answer that they give me at the beginning of the meeting can then be used later if they try to say like, oh, hey, I need to run this through my husband.
I can say like, oh yeah, but remember whenever we were talking about it before, he's so supportive of you. He loves that you're like, you know. I dunno, treating yourself to this sort of a photo shoot, he loves how much it made you feel incredible. Like [00:23:00] you've got that in your back pocket so that you can have that like information in order to roll it later.
Brian Hendricks: Mm-hmm.
Jodi Hendricks: Right. Sorry, I feel like I sort of steamrolled your conversation in order to likeable Yeah. To bring it back to photography a little bit.
Brian Hendricks: Spouse objection is, across the board. You're gonna deal with it no matter what industry. And so the more that I in my situation can identify, okay, this is gonna be a spouse objection, the more I can kind of playfully ask like, oh man, good for you.
You're gonna make this decision without her. Like just to, to probe and feel like his reaction. Oh, no, no, no. I can't do that. I don't. And I'll be like, and then I'll play along like, oh, I don't blame you. I don't wanna be sleeping in the doghouse. I don't want you there either, buddy. Yeah. But you just gotta feel it out and then just know, okay, this is gonna be my big hurdle my whole time I'm just talking building rapport.
How am I gonna overcome this? In 30 to 45 minutes.
Jodi Hendricks: I think that's actually genius that you do because I think that the normal way of looking at sales is that like you go into the meeting, you have your sales [00:24:00] script that you're gonna roll through, and then for us, we do the reveal. We show them their photos, we get through the whole entire thing.
They build this collection, they love it. Then we show them the price. And then it's like, boom. Then there's the objection, and we get either like, oh, I have to think about it, or, oh, I've gotta talk to my husband. Or they'll just say straight out. I mean, we already talked about the fact earlier down at the pool that even those two objections are usually based in price too, but.
Then you get that objection at the end, but what you are saying is that like you probe for that objection prior to it ever happening. Mm-hmm. So that as you're running the whole entire rest of your sales script, you're already formulating a lot of that like. Not, I don't wanna say convincing because sales isn't convincing anybody to do anything.
They're already sitting in that room with you. They already have the desire, they already want, the thing that you have. Your job is to just sort of give them permission [00:25:00] to do it for themselves. Mm-hmm. And so like, I just think that's a genius way of looking at it, that you're almost like getting that objection from the front end, so that by the time you get to the end, you've already kind of rolled it the whole entire time that you've been having this conversation.
Mm-hmm. Which is. Like genius level, which is why you're so freaking good. Yeah, thank you. At what you do. Okay. But we got on a little sidebar because we were talking about the guy who
Brian Hendricks: testimony
Jodi Hendricks: was, yeah. He was really like coming back at you saying like, this is a scam. He read a bad testimonial, he did all this stuff, and my stance on it was that your job as the salesman, no matter how hard of a no they're putting up to you, you have to make the transition to get them out of that crock brain or out of that analytical brain mm-hmm. And get them back into. The emotional brain and the thing that we use for that would be like a pattern interrupt, right?
?: Mm-hmm.
Jodi Hendricks: Which is something again, because I've like [00:26:00] studied sales and I read books on sales and I like know all of like this vocabulary of like how we do things and whenever I come to you and I'm like, oh, the answer to this. Like part of the equation is a pattern interrupt and you're like, what's that?
Brian Hendricks: Give me come on. I know what a pattern is.
Jodi Hendricks: Do, do you?
Brian Hendricks: Of course.
Jodi Hendricks: Okay. Tell us what a pattern interrupt is.
Brian Hendricks: Yeah, it's a comment that just. Debunks any type of resistance and it gets them outta their crock brain to your point, and back into the emotional, like kind of, it's almost kind of humor in my, what I would throw in, just like a little line of humor that also gets them thinking a different way about it versus staying in that rational, logical side of their brain.
Jodi Hendricks: Yeah. And
Brian Hendricks: being scared.
Jodi Hendricks: Okay. That's interesting that you think of it as like a humor sort of thing. 'cause I think of it more as like a way to bring them back into like the emotional side of things. Mm-hmm. And so the way that. I talked about it whenever I was in the shower with you [00:27:00] that day, was that I said, okay.
So I know you've talked to him beforehand. This is how we got off topic earlier is 'cause we were talking about how you make sure that you have this pre-conversation and you almost like pres script them and you get a lot of information from them. And so you had already known that this guy absolutely loved the Chicago Cubs.
He absolutely loved Wrigley Field.
Brian Hendricks: Mm-hmm.
Jodi Hendricks: Right. And so I brought it up saying like, the move to make there would be to bring in something that means so much to him, and especially, we've talked about this before with like your line of work too, because like the clients that Brian's seeing, it's like.
Normally older people who their teeth have decayed or their teeth have fallen out, or they've had like really bad dental care before and they're coming in for like dental implants. And so the things that they're saying to him about like their why, and the reason why they wanna have this is because they don't have any quality of life anymore.
They don't have their smile. [00:28:00] They don't feel comfortable talking to their friends anymore because they don't have any teeth. So. Bringing things back into that place of like how this really affects them in their life is like a really big thing that Brian's always using because his industry is so emotional like that, that he's literally giving people their smile back.
And so bringing that guy, the scammer guy, the testimonial guy, back into the idea of. Hey, you love Wrigley Field, right? And it's this pattern interrupt that. It's like, whoa, hey, wait a minute. I am, I'm expecting you to tell me why this testimonial's a lie. And instead you're talking about Wrigley Field. So it automatically like shakes his brain, automatically makes him think like, whoa, that was a pivot I wasn't expecting.
Brian Hendricks: Mm-hmm.
Jodi Hendricks: So. Whenever you're saying like, Hey, you love Wrigley Field, right? And he's like, yeah, sure. Of course I do. I already told you that. And then you say like, okay, well do you think that there's ever been anybody who's gone to Wrigley Field and who's had a bad time? then one of the number one things you [00:29:00] have to do with sales is you have to ask questions and make them say the answer.
Brian could have said like, oh, hey, you've been to Wrigley Field so many times and I bet you anything. There's been people who didn't like going, and so they would technically give Wrigley Field this bad testimonial, but. Brian teaching it to him is way less powerful than Brian asking a question and getting him to give the answer.
Do you know why that is? I feel like I've never like come across that in studying of why it's more powerful for them to say it
Brian Hendricks: because they're taking ownership of their words.
Jodi Hendricks: Yeah, that makes sense. Mm-hmm. I mean, that's the logical way of thinking about it, but I didn't know if there was, you know me, I want some sort of like psychological theory.
Yeah. I want some sort of like defined phenomenon of like, okay, this is the reason why this happens and why this is more potent, but. Either way, it's far more potent to ask a question and get them to answer it, because then they're the ones taking ownership, telling them themselves the [00:30:00] story instead of you sort of like forcing it down their throat.
So him saying like, Hey, do you think that anybody's ever gone to Wrigley Field and had a bad time? Then this guy automatically has to say like, well, yeah. Sure, of course there has been. And so then Brian would say like, okay, well in all fairness, did them having a bad time? Based on the thousands of people that you know who love it, the thousands of people who go every single season, the thousands of people who are like diehard Cubs fans.
Do you think that those few people who had a bad time at Wrigley Field had anything to do with your opinion? Of Wrigley Field or your experiences at Wrigley Field. And so then him having to answer like, well, no, that doesn't make sense. That doesn't make sense at all. So then automatically he is softened and he's thinking about this testimonial in a completely different way.
And Brian essentially has debunked his own thought process because he got [00:31:00] him out of that crock brain and he brought that back into. Like the emotional brain.
Brian Hendricks: Mm-hmm.
Jodi Hendricks: Right. So the two main objections that you say that you normally get, one being like they've gotta talk to their spouse or they've gotta think about it, or like something like that.
And what's the second one?
Brian Hendricks: Price.
Jodi Hendricks: Price. It's always price.
Brian Hendricks: It always is price.
Jodi Hendricks: Yeah.
Brian Hendricks: Even if it's spouse, it's to talk about price.
Jodi Hendricks: Yeah.
Brian Hendricks: And without value, without. Really uncovering their true why and getting, for me, four to six why's of why they want to do Price doesn't matter if there's no value, if there's no deep connection of like, this is how it's gonna impact my life, you're never gonna win because the price is gonna win over that.
So you have to establish the value for what I do is really, try to keep it as emotional as possible. You guys have an industry where it's very emotional.
Jodi Hendricks: Yeah,
Brian Hendricks: and clients can be very emotional, but then quickly switch to logical when it comes to price. Mm-hmm. So I have to try my best to keep it emotional as long as I can.
And so [00:32:00] what I do is I ask a lot of questions of like, I call them consequence based questions. I don't call 'em meth, but that's what they're called. But it's more questions that are like, okay man, okay, let's picture this. A year from now, let's say you don't do the dental implants. You, your, your mouth kind of stays the same, maybe it gets in worse condition, you're having health problems.
Is that. Is that something you wanna settle for? I mean, what, what is that like for you? Talk to me about that. And you get them to open up about like, no, I, I don't want that. And they're, they're slowly walking down that path of I don't wanna deal with the consequences. Yes, I want this solution. So I ask consequence based questions of, if you don't take action, what does that look like?
Are you willing to settle for that? And the way I wrap it up before I go into my pitch, my presentation. Is say, you know, Mr. Hendricks, Mr. Hendricks, you know, based on our, our great conversation.
Jodi Hendricks: You're talking to my dad now?
Brian Hendricks: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I, I, although my voice, Mr. Hendricks,
Jodi Hendricks: Mr. Hendricks
Brian Hendricks: no, but I'm, I'm recapping, like, based on everything you told me, [00:33:00] you know, you feel like not only it would give your smile back, but like you'd be able to sing in church again.
You'd be in those pictures with your grandkids, be able to be close to your wife. Like these are things that they, you live, you live one time, you know you wanna do the things you love. Am I hearing you right? Did I, did I nail that or what? And I, I kind of playfully say that. They're like, yeah, you nailed it.
But the reason I do that is because I know that when it comes to the price and they're gonna say, that's really expensive. I can then go back to that conversation and be like, whoa, let's slow down a second. Mr. Hendricks, earlier we were talking and you agreed how much this is gonna change your life, and you agreed that you don't wanna settle for the alternative.
Right. So besides the price, is there anything else that's, that's holding you back and you're isolating, right. Just typical role in the objections. And again, it always comes to price. Yeah. But the more that you can have those conversations proactively probing, like we keep mentioning, it just helps you identify quicker what it's gonna be and figure out a game plan to overcome it.
Jodi Hendricks: Here's a random question and we [00:34:00] didn't like chat about this before and I'm really curious to just hear what your like off the cuff answer is, is like. There's so much in our industry. I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that we're women and that like we don't have this sort of like drilled into us as little girls, you know, the sales process and like business and you know, being in these sort of like conversations that things feel, what we say is quote unquote like salesy.
Mm-hmm. Right. Has there ever been. Like in your man brain, has there ever been a time that you've felt like I'm being salesy, or that by you even being aggressive inside of a sales call, even being like, you know, pushing them to like really like get over these objections and get to the thing that they want.
Has there ever been a time that you've thought like, oh man, being really salesy. This is like gross of me,
Brian Hendricks: There's definitely been times when I've felt like I've been too aggressive. I wouldn't [00:35:00] call it salesy because anytime I'm dealing with anybody, it's, very just me being myself.
I, the whole reason I love sales and the reason I think I do well with sales is because I have an ability to connect with people, but I also, I genuinely wanna help 'em. In this case, it's a life changer for someone to get , their smile back.
Jodi Hendricks: Yeah.
Brian Hendricks: And I realized that. So I play off of. I'm here to help you.
I think of me as your guide. I'm gonna guide you through this process. And it's not salesy at all.
Jodi Hendricks: That's exactly what
I say too.
Brian Hendricks: But it's also like that, that hidden ninja, like, yeah, I am closing you and I have a framework I'm following, and I'm finding out what these objections are. Like you're following the strategy and everything.
You're, learned along the way, but I'm in the business of helping people and I'm changing their lives. So if I think about it that way, of having great conversations. On my terms.
Jodi Hendricks: Yeah.
Brian Hendricks: And get to the result I want. Like, it's never gonna be salesy. I have to be aggressive and maybe take a few nos.
Not like a car dealership or like slam the desk. What is it gonna take to earn your business? It's not like that. That's what I would feel [00:36:00] is like slimy and gross, you know?
Jodi Hendricks: Yeah.
Brian Hendricks: But it's, never like that., I even tell people at the very end, if they're still giving me a no, I almost tell them like, man, I really feel like I let you down.
Because you came to me looking for a solution, and I'm trying my best to help you figure this out, but we're not on the same page. So I feel bad about that. And even if I don't get the sale, like they know that I'm being genuine and I'm still being kind of pushy in a way trying to get that business.
Jodi Hendricks: Yeah.
Brian Hendricks: But that's my approach just being myself, more conversational and just not like, too aggressive and, and slimy like that.
Jodi Hendricks: I feel like that's the answer I always say too, is that like. I don't feel like anything that I do inside the sales room is salesy or aggressive or like pushy or too hard or anything like that, because I also know that I have people who are sitting in the sales room right there with me crying over how much they love their photos, right?
Loving every single thing that I've done for them. I know that they're sitting in that room because there's something that they want, something that they desire. So me [00:37:00] like letting them do the mental work to get over those hurdles in order to get the thing that they came to me for. I don't see how that can ever be salesy.
I'm literally just being like a catalyst in them getting the. Exact product that they said that they wanted from me. For me, I feel like I'm just doing my job and I'm doing my job really well and making sure that they get everything that they've like ever dreamed of having from me. One quick point, because this is already like getting pretty long.
I feel like me and you could sit here and do this for a really long time, I mean. We do do this for a really long time, most of the time, but never recorded, but, so one thing that you said just a little bit ago that I wanted to clarify just a little bit, because I feel like it's kind of the opposite.
It for what I do and for what the listeners do is that you said that you asked consequence based questions and because we're in an industry that like there isn't really some big, huge consequence that's gonna happen [00:38:00] like next week or like even next month, or even at the end of the year. Right? Like the consequence that we would have to talk about is like, okay.
If you don't get these photos right now, what's that gonna feel like when your baby's 18? What's that gonna feel like when they're going off to college, which that's such a like long term consequence that happens, you know, that it's not as powerful as yours is because yours. Doing dental implants, like you're very much so affecting people's happiness and you're affecting their life and you're affecting their livelihood.
You're affecting so many different areas of their business, and so ours is like so much more of a luxury item.
Brian Hendricks: Mm-hmm.
Jodi Hendricks: It's kind of the same as like if somebody was going out and being like, I want this Dior bag, which is stunning.
Brian Hendricks: Mm-hmm.
Jodi Hendricks: There's not this huge consequence on it if they don't buy it because it's a luxury item.
So I work a little bit more like desire based, whereas you work a little bit more consequence based.
Brian Hendricks: Mm-hmm.
Jodi Hendricks: So whenever they're [00:39:00] coming in and you're starting your sales script and you're doing all of that, like pre probing stuff. That you normally do, I do somewhat of a similar structure, but like they're coming in and I'm figuring out what their desires are.
Brian Hendricks: Mm-hmm.
Jodi Hendricks: And I'm figuring, I'm asking questions about what their grandma's house felt like growing up. I'm asking questions about like what kind of childhood they're wanting to give their kids, whether or not they want their house to feel as like warm and cozy and welcoming as their grandmas. And whether or not there was.
You know, pictures lined in the hallways and lined up the staircase and like all of those sort of things. And I'm talking a lot more about also, I'm obviously like, so psychology based, and I'm talking about how much these photos being on the walls really changes a child's sense of belonging, like inside of their family and things like that.
So I'm sort of laying that groundwork about. That desire base so that by the time we get back around to whenever we're gonna hit a hard [00:40:00] objection, whenever we're gonna talk about like, oh, this feels too expensive. The way that I'm usually rolling that objection is I'm gonna talk about the cost versus the price.
Mm-hmm. Do you ever talk about like cost versus price inside of like what you do?
Brian Hendricks: Absolutely. Because there's a small window of time that people. Could be technically eligible to get implants if they wait too long and they lose bone density, for example. Not to get too technical, but
Jodi Hendricks: okay.
Brian Hendricks: The older people get, they naturally lose bone density if they've been in denture say for 20, 30 years.
They're rapidly losing bone density. So if the cost in that scenario would be like, look, here's the scenario. If you don't do this, it's gonna not only cost you like, think about your health. You're not gonna be able to do this, and are you gonna want to settle for dentures the rest of your life? You told me they don't fit, they slide around.
So I'm walking them through the cost of like, man, if you don't do this, here's what this cost looks like for you.
Jodi Hendricks: Yeah.
Brian Hendricks: Is that kind of what you're saying?
Jodi Hendricks: Yeah, that's exactly what I'm saying. So there's always the cost and then there's always the price,
Brian Hendricks: right?
Jodi Hendricks: So the price is the [00:41:00] number that's like, here's how much this is going to be today.
This is how much has to come out of your bank account. That's the price. Mm-hmm. But the cost is always wrapped so much more into. The human feelings that we have around it. So the cost is gonna be wrapped around guilt. The cost is gonna be wrapped around shame. The cost is gonna be wrapped around regret, which those things like we were talking about before, you have those like consequence based questions that are so much more powerful than we have.
But we have that idea of guilt and regret and shame of like, okay, are we doing everything that we're supposed to be doing in order to make sure our kids , feel this like sense of belonging? Are we doing everything that we can to give them that like warm hug inside of our homes the way that our grandmother's house has felt?
So whenever I get down to having some sort of an objection about the price, then I can always say like, okay, like I totally understand that budget is always king. I never, I wanna respect your bank account. I never want you [00:42:00] guys to overspend anything more than you want to, but. Whenever you came in at the beginning of this meeting, you told me that the number one thing that you wanna make sure to give your kids is that sense of belonging and that you want your home to feel the same exact way that your childhood home felt.
Do you feel like you're gonna be able to do that if you're not actively making these decisions? To have the albums on your coffee tables and have the frames up on your walls and like, will your kids walk in and feel. That warm hug if we're not doing those things today. So which one feels heavier? The cost or the price.
Brian Hendricks: Yeah. That's huge.
Jodi Hendricks: Yeah.
Brian Hendricks: We've talked about this a few times and like you said in the beginning of this, you have the book Smart and these are all like just concepts that I may have heard about before, but I hear you say it and like, yeah, that makes sense. And yeah, I can easily like work that into my spiel and my framework and.
It makes a big difference. 'cause I have a lot of things you've taught me.
Jodi Hendricks: You [00:43:00] have,
Brian Hendricks: yeah.
Jodi Hendricks: A lot of things I've taught you, you've like worked into Yeah. Like a little more
Brian Hendricks: walks. Yeah.
Jodi Hendricks: Yeah.
Brian Hendricks: Okay. But that's, that's one of 'em is the cost of like, which one is heavier for you. Like, you know, do you want to deal with that?
Like, you know.
Jodi Hendricks: Yeah.
Brian Hendricks: That, that's a big one.
Jodi Hendricks: That is a big one. Okay. We've gotten pretty long here. We were planning on just like chatting a little bit and now here we are. Almost 45 minutes into this, and you wanna know what we have to go do, Mr. Hendricks
Brian Hendricks: A sunset cruise?
Jodi Hendricks: We have to go do a sunset cruise.
Brian Hendricks: Yes.
Jodi Hendricks: Which I'm very excited about.
Brian Hendricks: I just, I'm very excited you had me on and I don't know if you'll ever invite me back.
Jodi Hendricks: I won't.
Brian Hendricks: It was fk. It was, it was a pleasure.
Jodi Hendricks: This is the most male energy, the posers podcast, I feel like, that it can ever have. Yeah. Really?
Brian Hendricks: I'm tapping out. I'm done.
Jodi Hendricks: You're, you're top.
Oh, really? Because I just said you're not getting invited back Now you're gonna bring it back into your court. You're like, no, I chop out. No, I'm done.
Brian Hendricks: I'll never be on your podcast.
Jodi Hendricks: I don't want, I don't want anything to do with your podcast.
Brian Hendricks: I'm really proud of you.
Jodi Hendricks: Thank you. That's really sweet. I love you very much.
Thank you for coming on for your maiden [00:44:00] voyage. I mean, we're going on a Sunset cruise right now, so Maiden Voyage onto the Posers podcast and I'm just completely joking with you. I will have you on at some point whenever I find something else to pick that genius brain about.
Brian Hendricks: Oh, thanks baby.
Jodi Hendricks: Okay, let's not make this weird. How do I end this? I'm like, okay, love you. Bye. Nobody knows whether or not I'm talking to you or if I'm talking to them. No. I'm really stoked that there's these little places where my husband's world and my world can kind of collide and we have this common. I know conversation that we get to have every once in a while we get to bounce things back and forth with each other.
So thank you Mr. Hendricks for coming on the podcast for the very first and maybe the very last time.
Brian Hendricks: It was a pleasure.
Jodi Hendricks: All right, that's all we've got. Bye for now, friends.
Outro: Okay, so that is a wrap on this episode of the Posers Podcast. If you loved it, please subscribe, rate, and review because honestly, algorithms are needier than all of our [00:45:00] ex-boyfriends combined. And ladies, I need all the help I can get. If you've got thoughts, questions, love letters, even hate mail, please send them my way.
I actually read every single one of them. So until next time, stapled, stay messy and don't let the bullshit win. Tits up. Ears open and go build something. Incredible. Bye for now, friends.
