Intro: [00:00:00] Hello and welcome to the Posers podcast, the place where we skip the fluff. Say the quiet parts out loud and dig into what really matters. This is where photography, psychology, and business collide. I'm Jody, your host, and I'm bringing you my raw takes, hard wins, and a whole lot of unfiltered honesty about what it takes to build a photography business that actually connects and makes money.
So ladies, grab your headphones and get your tits up and your ears open because we are going to build something really incredible together.
Jodi: Okay. Hello, hello, hello. And welcome back my beautiful posers. This feels a little bit different for me today because as I give that little intro that I have found myself always saying on every single episode, I have somebody beautiful staring back at me as I say it. And I'm like, I'm like, okay, that makes me feel a little bit weird.
Okay. But we are back, I think this is episode [00:01:00] number 15 or so. I'm starting to lose track, which is probably a really good thing because notoriously I have never committed to long form content in my business. And honestly, whenever I was debating the idea of starting a podcast, that was my number one fear that I was gonna be one of those podcast girlies who puts out a few episodes and then is like, okay, that's a lot of hard work, so now I'm not gonna do it.
But even my team said the other day, I think on episode 12, they were like, Jodi, you've gone a whole entire quarter and you have produced like 12 episodes in a row for 12 weeks straight. And I'm like, can we just celebrate? I have shown up the way that I said that I would show up. But today is the 15th episode, I think, and we've got a first happening.
We have Shannon Griffin in , I was gonna say in the studio, but she's not, she's in [00:02:00] Florida. I wish she is in Florida, but she is coming to us live on the podcast today. And I wanna give like a little hype up, but first I wanna say Shannon, we just recorded together for the motherhood anthology. So now I'm basically, I'm just gonna say we're on tour.
Shannon Griffin: Yeah. Oh,
Jodi: this is our live, this is our live US tour. We're debating whether or not we should take it international or not. So I think I alluded to this in a few episodes ago, how I met Shannon and before I even let you did, I listened
Shannon Griffin: to that one. I was smiling before
Jodi: I, I said I'm not letting you speak before I even let Shannon speak.
I am going to tell you the girl crush that I have on this woman, my husband would attest to the fact that when I signed up to speak at the Focus and Flourish event, I went into a dark place of comparison. And it's all Shannon's fault. Honestly. I [00:03:00] showed my husband your Instagram and I was just like, look at this girl.
Look at her work. Look at what she creates. Like, I can't compete. I can't compete with that. And bless him. He's always so great. He was like, I don't think you're competing.
Shannon Griffin: Yeah. And I was like, oh, that was the perfect thing to say. It wasn't like. Fluffing you up. Like, no, your work's better by putting somebody else down.
He's like, you're not competing. Well, I
Jodi: mean, he did tell me I'm perfect.
Shannon Griffin: Well, you are
Jodi: because I am. But no, he, he said something along the lines of like, I think you're thinking about this the wrong way. I don't think you're competing with her. And I was like, that is such a great answer to give me right now.
Because he was exactly right. But that did not stop me from the, I don't wanna call it a doom scroll, I wanna call it like a care bear stare. Scroll into your Instagram feed, because that's what I felt like, like every time I was looking at photo, I, like, I was just sending like the, like as if I had my heart on my stomach and I was just like sending it over to you.
I.[00:04:00]
On the motherhood anthology, we couldn't really tell this like full story because we kept it a little bit cleaner than usual. But welcome to the dark side of the internet. You can say whatever the fuck you want today. I'm so happy to be here.
Shannon Griffin: Yeah,
Jodi: I'm gonna let you talk at some point, I swear to God. But so then whenever we ended up meeting, I had this full blown girl crush.
I had thought about you for weeks, Shannon, I'm hearing, or weeks, but I honestly thought that I wasn't going to really vibe with you that much in person because I am an obnoxious, like loud like center of the room kind of person who like you can sort of stick in a closet at some point because you want me to shut up.
And you online. Came across much more like, thoughtful, much more like aware, much more artistic than I am, like all of this. So I was like, oh, I don't know that we're gonna vibe, but So you walked through the front door of the house that we were all staying in [00:05:00] and you said something like, my tits are out.
Like, let's go or something like that. Said down. I exactly happened. What did you say? There
Shannon Griffin: wasn't, there was an outdoor, you and Whitney walked in. First of all, it took me like an hour to figure out how to open the door at this stadium. You and, and Whitney walked in and who's an amazing, that's a whole other story.
She's amazing. Whole other story. There was like this outdoor area that you were looking through the window and you're like, this is amazing. Does it go to the other Airbnb? And I was like, no. But they should put like an outdoor shower. and you were like, oh, I love that. I was like, get out there and get your tits out.
Oh,
Jodi: that's what it was. I knew that there was the word tits. That's, that's how much I blacked out with my love for you Shannon is you said the word tits and everybody on this podcast knows, like my whole thing is I'm like, tits up ears all, let's go. So you said that and Port, I didn't even think about this fact that I was probably mid conversation with Whitney and I probably just bailed on her.
I probably was just like, you know what? You're not important to me anymore. We love Whitney. Come to
Shannon Griffin: find out she's just like us.
Jodi: She's literally our third wheel. [00:06:00] And so I probably bailed from that and I whipped my hair around. So like I was Lizzo whipping my hair around and I was like, who is that? And I literally walked over to you at the island of the kitchen.
I sat down and I got like three inches from your nose. And I was like, I like you.
Shannon Griffin: And the rest is history. And
Jodi: that's how our love affair started podcast later. And I've since told my husband, since I came back from the conference, that I just feel like sometimes you meet your soul people.
Shannon Griffin: Yes.
Jodi: And that somehow in some other life meet and you cross paths.
And we were, we were
Shannon Griffin: lovers.
Jodi: We were lovers and some other, we always talk about the fact that we're both divorced. And so, we both say that like, there was a time period where we were like, should we marry? We shoulda, shoulda met each other. Should we, should we go the other route? And if I had met you prior to my husband, like I would've been an amazing stepmom.
Like, oh, I don't, I don't know where he would be in life right [00:07:00] now. Like Mave is basically my daughter as it is. So that's Shannon's daughter's name anyways. Okay. So enough hype about how insanely perfect you are in life. Shannon is based out of Florida, and like I said, we met at the conference where she gave the most incredible presentation that had people's jaws on the floor with her process, how she runs her business, the balls that this woman has inside of her business.
You guys, like, I just, I am blown away. And so I wanna say before again, before I let Shannon talk. Okay. I'm just
Shannon Griffin: gonna mute.
Jodi: Yeah, just, you know what, you don't need to really, this is still a one woman show. Okay.
Shannon Griffin: I'm here to hype you up.
Jodi: Yeah, no. Before we are gonna get into a little bit of that process and I am gonna let Shannon talk.
But I wanna tell you what we had actually planned [00:08:00] before. And in talking about this episode, we were like, what can we do? What can we talk about? We started with the idea, and maybe we'll get into this a little bit later, that me and you are both running very successful businesses, but they are so wildly different, but then also with some fundamental sameness to them too.
Similarities. That's the word. Rather than same. Yeah, that sameness. I like sameness. I like sameness too. You know what? Trademark that. Okay. So Whitney Whitney's a trademark attorney, so that's why we keep on saying trademark that. Okay. Wait. So we were gonna talk about we were gonna play a little game at about we listen and we don't, we listen and we don't judge, but business edition.
So we were both sort of coming up with these funny little quippy things , mistakes that we had made in our business, things that were just so ridiculously laughable at this point, now that we can look back on them, but. Something happened this morning that came up very authentically and very organically, and it's real time and it's real life, and it's something that I [00:09:00] think really could be talked about.
And, uh, so you made the really, really, like bold and brave decision to say like, yeah, let's just process it over this podcast. So, how do we wanna dive into that?
Shannon Griffin: That's up to you. I, I guess we could talk a little bit about. at the workshop you and I both presented, which you went before me and I hated you for that.
'cause you were so good. I was like, God, I gotta follow up this shit. So you went before me. I told you I felt like I ran a marathon. I was sweating so bad when you were, I knew you were a day and a half and I felt like you were my daughter up there. I was crying. You got done. I was like, you did that.
Remember I was texting you because you were at another table and I was like, everyone was laughing and crying and they loved you and you did it, Jody, you did it,
Jodi: did it. I did it because Shannon made sure to let, thank you. It was my f it was my first time. And it was your first time to let everybody know it was my first time.
But I did, I did do it. Okay. So we were at that conference and, and then I, I led a shoot. You [00:10:00] did not. I did. So I did not because I'm scared to death. Shoot. I know. And, and we're gonna talk about that. I'm scared to death. And that's just, it was an add-on. Yeah. So you and we, we went to the conference knowing that we were both given a presentation and then we were given the option, do you wanna do any like one-on-one mentoring?
Shannon Griffin: Do you wanna do any. Shoot add-ons. And I've never led a shoot and I, I intentionally haven't in the past because I don't really know how to teach on that. Like, people always ask me like, I wanna see you shoot, or do you teach or shooting? And I'm like, I, I don't know how to explain why I photograph women way I do.
I don't even know the full reason why. Well, 'cause it
Jodi: just comes from inside of you. And I, I completely understand that. Before we dive into like the she part of that, I want to talk about my interpretation of your presentation part. Okay. Like the classroom style part, both of us main stage, like to all of the attendees there and.
My interpretation from the presentation that you gave my jaw was literally on the floor because me and you had [00:11:00] talked for the day and a half leading up to our presentations and I hadn't really like gotten the full scope of what it is that you do. And I know for a fact that so many people who were sitting there and listening to that, even of the speaker panel, so even of the people who are like running really incredible business and businesses and they're super experienced and they're further along in their businesses than some of the attendees, even they, along with me, were jaws on the floor with what you spoke about in regards to your process.
But I know. That we got a little bit of like, feedback from the attendees and some people felt like there was too much kind of left on the table that like didn't get cleared up about what it is you do. And I wanna talk a little bit about that and how that feels in regards to like. What we were going to Florida to do as [00:12:00] educators.
Like making sure that we are one, running our own businesses. Two. Yeah. And making sure that we're putting it out all on the table for the people who are listening. But that also, we're supposed to leave a little bit on the table there. We're supposed to leave a little bit behind closed doors because we do have education arms to our business.
So tell me like that side and like what you were thinking and what you were feeling. So I
Shannon Griffin: think I wanted to like unpack all of this with you, not only with you. So you called, you were like, let's talk. And then I was like, let's do it on the podcast because I feel like there's not a lot of gray area. .
I feel like people are very defensive. Like it's easy for me to read this feedback and be like, well, you don't understand how, lemme clarify. Clarify. You think?
Jodi: You think that educators can get really defensive? Really defensive. The attendees? No, no, no, no, no. Yes. Thank you
Shannon Griffin: for clearing that.
Yes. The educator
Jodi: that us educators, which is funny for me to even put myself into that like ballpark now. But here I am. Here you're here. I [00:13:00] here fucking am. Okay. But so us as educators, if somebody gives us feedback about what it's that we're putting out there, there is this tendency to get defensive and gets your hackles up and to get prickly about it.
Yes. So that's what Shannon's saying. Okay. Go.
Shannon Griffin: Thank you for clarifying that. Yes. Not the attendees. So there's just so many new things in here. Like, this was Brittany's first conference, which she did. Freaking phenomenal. It was like
Jodi: so good.
Shannon Griffin: I was like, if this were my first conference, I'd be like, I brought water and you get some snack bars.
Jodi: I'd literally forget the water. So, and we're not, yeah.
Shannon Griffin: And we're not on a schedule. 'cause I don't know how long someone's gonna s No, it'd be She did. Oh she did she and her team, like, I have nothing, I have no bad feedback for them. But it was her first time. Some of these attendees had never been to a workshop before.
It was not my first time speaking, like given a presentation, but it was my first time leading a shoot. So there was a lot of news and, and like having gr I do wanna have grace for myself, but I'm kind of the same in parenting where I also really wanna like, [00:14:00] kinda shit on myself for a second. 'cause I feel like there's growth in that when people are like, give yourself grace and like you did the best that you can.
I'm like, did I, could I do better? So this is where I kind of wanna like. As a whole, like talk about how these things can be really hard. And, but I told Jody, I te it was like six 30 your time. I was on my walk and I was like, I I texted you yesterday saying I'm having a really hard time coming up with like, we listen and we don't judge.
Yeah, because you're perfect. I rattle off
Jodi: like four to you, Shannon. I was like, here's when I was an idiot this time. Here's when I was an idiot this time. How about you? And you were like, Craig, I can do do that in life,
Shannon Griffin: but business I'm perfect. Honestly. No, not at all. And we have the same kind of like tax story.
I'm not paying taxes, not knowing, but I very much was like, I have something now. I have something big now. Like I, yeah, I woke up this morning like, oh, I've got it. Well, this came to me a week ago and it was sitting on my counter and our house is getting clean today. And I was moving stuff around and I was like, what is this?
And I opened, I was like, [00:15:00] oh yeah, the feedback. And this was at 6:00 AM and my daughter's about to get ready for school and I'm reading it and my, my heart's in my stomach and I'm like, Ugh. Like it's just. It's so hard sometimes to, to read these things about yourself or to come to terms with like, okay, maybe I didn't know what I was doing.
So now I'm in this weird place of like, I'll read these, it's not very long, but it's like this weird place of, I kind of wanna talk it out with you of where do I go from here? Because I, as an attendee myself of other workshops, I know what that feels like to, to pay that money that you've worked so hard for.
For some people, this is like a week's worth of work to pay for this like a month. Like, and I want to make sure there's like this balance of making sure that they get what they needed out of it without giving everything of myself. Like where is that on? But also,
Jodi: sidebar, I'm going to give the listeners right now a little like, insight into the conversation that happened at six 30 this morning while I was standing in my kitchen making, and I'm picking up dog poop.
I was like [00:16:00] literally I need, hold on, let me get my kids all off to school and then we'll have this conversation. But within the first 30 seconds, Chan. You had rectified this in, in my head at least because the first thing that you said to me was exactly what you just said there. You're like, these people paid money and they feel as though I didn't give everything that I needed to give for the situation.
And in that same exact breath you said, I have this other like. Bit of like education that I can give them and I'm going to give them that and I'm going to give them that for free because I want to make sure that they are fully taken care of, that they know that I care, that they feel as though I came up short.
Which I will also say, I don't think you came up short. I think that there was a huge difference in the fact that you were teaching on your process. Like we're still just talking about the classroom session. So you were teaching on your process. I chose to speak on a [00:17:00] completely different topic that I could teach one lesson about.
Right? Whenever you're, as a photographer, whenever you're talking about your process. That's a mastermind. , Like I literally just launched a mastermind and to go through my whole entire process of teaching people what I actually do in my business. That's an eight week mastermind. And honestly, I think it's more like a 12 week mastermind.
Yes. So for you to go up there and for you to talk about your process and this process, you guys, this is gonna have to be a part two of this podcast. 'cause I know we're gonna go long today, but this process was so immaculate and so. Jaw dropping that, of course there was information that still stayed behind a curtain.
Yeah. Like of course that is what happened because there's no way in 40 minutes that you're gonna be able to go up there and talk about your process and be able to answer all of the questions that these people had. 'cause I would've been able to talk to you for days asking questions [00:18:00] about how you go through this.
Shannon Griffin: Yeah.
Jodi: So I just wanna say where your head is at and where your heart is at is already in the right place. And I don't, especially after listening to this, I don't think that anybody would have any question about that.
Shannon Griffin: Okay. I just wanna make sure like it's, it's, this is also not to like, 'cause we're talking about six people that took my, took the shoot.
So I'm not doing this to like try to save face 'cause I'm gonna reach out to them separately. 'cause most people aren't gonna know. Yeah. If it was 60
Jodi: people, if it was 600 people, that's to save face. But you are making sure that six individuals feel as though they got their money's worth from what they signed up for.
And I
Shannon Griffin: think, I just wanna talk about this because there's so many conferences and so much education and it's like, how can we do better? How can people really get their money's worth while we're still able to make a living? So for people who have never taught at a conference. Everyone will tell you, you and I talked about this this morning, the point of a conference, if you are an educator, which Jody and [00:19:00] I are, if you're an educator, you don't get paid.
Like we did not get paid to go teach at this conference. This was four days away from our family. Jody had to get there by plane. Luckily, it was close enough for me to drive. We had to pay for our own food. We had a, luckily we had lodging. But I, we came out of pocket for that. And so it's one of those things that you are supposed to give a taste of what you offer, and the whole goal is that these people are gonna come away inspired.
They're going to get enough. That they could change their business, but then they might wanna reach out to you of like, I wanna dive deeper into this. Yeah. So that's a way that they're getting their money's worth. But then you also have a chance to, to make money on the background.
Jodi: Especially because they're coming in and they're seeing the Jody's who are literally standing in the front of the room acting like think clown.
Just being ridiculous and like knowing whether or not you gravitate towards that kind of education. Yes. And then you've got the Shannons who are coming up and things are a lot more thoughtful, like I said, and aware [00:20:00] and all of that. And you're way more artistic than I am. So really going to a conference and diving into each person's sort of ecosystem and seeing how they work and seeing how they talk and seeing how they teach, that's the valuable part for the attendees And the valuable part for us is that we're getting to see a new audience.
Shannon Griffin: Yes,
Jodi: I speak in front of new people.
Shannon Griffin: I think a takeaway from this, if you're listening and you're considering, I hadn't even thought about this before, but I toot my own horn, I think this is a really good point, but I think if you're considering like going to a workshop because someone you love is there, compared to paying and doing one-on-one mentoring, and this is not a plug for myself, but to go to a conference where 12 people are speaking and to think I'm going just for this one person, you're not gonna get your money's worth.
Like I think there were like two or three people that are like, I came because you were on the ticket. And it's like, why only 40 minutes to talk out of all these 12 speakers? Like that's not, you're not gonna get what you want out of this. So I think if you're like on the [00:21:00] fence, you should just pay to do one-on-one mentoring with that speaker instead of paying for an entire conference.
Jodi: Yeah, I, I think 100%, like if you know that you already gravitate to some, to someone, just invest in that knowing that that's how you speak. With that person, but then also to talk about the fact that there is so much education that's out there. And I wanna talk a little bit about the people who get burned inside of that education and how to sort of like see those red flags because it kind of sucks.
I've been on the other side of the Me Too kind of education. Me. Me too. I think, yeah, I think we all have, I've been in $25,000 masterminds. I've been in $15,000 masterminds. I've spent lots of money to learn from people and then to get inside of it and to then feel as though it either wasn't the right fit or you didn't get your money's worth of what you wanted or promises that were made [00:22:00] weren't delivered.
And I think that that's, I think that this conversation right here is so important because. If I'm gonna invest money, I wanna invest money in the Shannons of the world. Because even the way that you approached it this morning where there was not an ounce of defensiveness, there was not even a minute of like you thinking about yourself, your automatic response was, how do I make this right?
And again, I don't think there's anything that you have to make right? I think that you're overanalyzing and like over-delivering and making sure that you're taking care of all the people around you. And I think that that is the biggest green flag. That you can ever see from an educator. So if you are on the fence about whether or not you wanna do education with somebody, I think it's a really good idea to hop into their one-on-one that they're offering, hop into like a discovery call with them and ask how have you [00:23:00] handled this sort of stuff in the past?
Shannon Griffin: Yeah,
Jodi: right. Like, and, and see whether or not that gut feeling really aligns with whether or not you feel like they're telling you the truth. Like mm-hmm. Because if you're an educator, you have, you have 100% let somebody down at some point. Yes. It's impossible. It's impossible that you haven't. Right. So to be asking those questions like when you felt let down, how did you handle it within a mastermind group?
Or how did you like, take that kind of feedback and then hear how they're speaking and how they're listening. And that's gonna give you more information about the Mastermind in general than I think anything else.
Shannon Griffin: Yeah.
Jodi: Yeah. I just had a situation this morning that happened that it was actually one of the attendees from the Focus and Flourish conference was DMing me about whether or not she should jump into my mastermind.
Shannon Griffin: Yeah.
Jodi: I had had a side conversation with her at the conference, and I know I adore her as a person. I know she adores me as a person. And so we had [00:24:00] had this little side conversation and whenever she reached out on her dms this morning and told me that she was considering joining my mastermind, told her no.
Shannon Griffin: Yeah.
Jodi: And I think that's such a huge thing to hear from an educator. I didn't tell her no, because I don't want her to be in there. I want her to be in there. Of course, I want my bi I mean, you wanna hang out with her? I have to make money too. Like I want my mastermind to like sell out. Fill up. Yeah.
Shannon Griffin: Yeah. I
Jodi: mean, it's fine.
It already came close to selling out this morning, whenever it launched, so it's fine. But I told her, I was just like, I don't think that this is the right fit for you right now, because of some stuff that she had told me about in Florida. And so like. That kind of interaction and that kind of transparency, that kind of integrity, like that's what you want to feel when you are signing up within a mastermind or even something smaller than a mastermind.
Even buying a course, even doing something like that, that you really feel like that person is there to really [00:25:00] pour into you and really give you the information you're signing up for and not do a lick of gatekeeping.
Shannon Griffin: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And it's hard too because like I said, this is my first time leaving a shoot so some of the feedback I got was like I didn't teach, I didn't teach what I was shooting.
It was more of like, they just watched me and then it was a portfolio building and one of the people was like, I didn't want a portfolio building. I wanted you to teach, but then also. Our model came back and doesn't want her like nipples or butt crack showing and they're upset that they can't really show that in their portfolio.
I, I think what's hard for me is I've been I bar, it
Jodi: was a bo wash shoot. We don't normally have nipples and butt cracks in butt. I mean in photo shoot, I mean I do actually like give a naked baby butt all day long. I love a naked baby butt. But those are not the butt cracks that we're talking about right here.
Shannon is an insane boudoir photographer. We haven't even gotten into like that whole like side of her business yet. 'cause we were wanting to process through this, but [00:26:00] we were doing a boudoir shoot. I was actually there because I was playing bass. I was holding the drapes and opening them, and then somebody parked in the parking lot.
I'm like, hold on, pause the shoot. I was being like, the community mom. You were the
Shannon Griffin: best. You were my, you were the best assistant ever. I was,
Jodi: I was such a phenomenal assistant. But yeah. But even in speaking about your process the day before, was it the same day? I can't keep them short. It was the same
Shannon Griffin: day.
Jodi: Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So you had spoken about your process earlier in the day, and then whenever we got into shooting, like I almost kind of like innately knew that you were a quiet photographer, that you're very much so, like you're very in tune with your client. You are so connected in that way, in a deep, deep way because of the conversations that you had had prior to which we'll get into that with your process, but.
I knew going in, but granted, I am an experienced photographer. I've been to a lot of these things, so I already had a clue that you were going to be very [00:27:00] quiet, very connected with your client. I was about to say subject as if, as if she was like, I don't know, a soda bottle that you were photographing for a product shoot.
No. You were very connected, so I expected that. But some of the attendees felt as though they just wanted you to teach to your process a little bit more than just showing your process. Yeah, yeah, what's hard is I had, I think I was trying to go too deep with it for a conference.
Shannon Griffin: So that's where like the one-on-one mentoring. Like usually if you wanna do a shoot with me, I charge $10,000 and you come to me in Florida. Hold on, hold on. My armpits started
Jodi: to sweat. Say it again Shannon. Say it again. If you want a mentor with me, I wanna say it in clap. If you book with Shannon fucking Griffin, you're booking a 10 k shoot people,
Shannon Griffin: not my clients but mentoring, but, but love you.
Cute with me. But because leading up to it, we do [00:28:00] four mentor sessions and then we do the session because I want them to like see where they started with. So the hard thing was is I had gotten the six attendees email and I was like. I want you guys to look over the questionnaire for the model and think about visualize how you would photograph her leading up to it.
And so I wanted that constant contact with 'em and I was like, email me, tell me how you're feeling if you have any ideas. No one reached out to
Jodi: me. Pause. Hold on. you had the emails for the six people that you knew had signed up for your shoot that they were doing in Florida, and you were having this kind of mentoring happening before the conference ever even started.
Yeah. Yeah. I love you so much, you've gotta give yourself some grace. You went so far above it sounds like if I'm
Shannon Griffin: gonna do a shoot, it doesn't make sense for me to just show up and photograph a model. Like, whole reason I get the images I get my portfolio is because I am connecting and I wanted these people to approach the boudoir session how I would, and so I told [00:29:00] them, look at these.
What's gonna happen is when I give the presentation, when you're in the room, I'm gonna go in detail about some of her answers, and I wanna see how your mind shifts and now how you're gonna visualize this session. Okay. Here's, I, I didn't want to take over the shoot because I wanted them to see her and see how they were gonna photograph her and I was there if they needed help.
Like, I, I don't think I explained it well enough. I think that's like. There was a miscommunication.
Jodi: Two things can be incredibly true in this scenario right now. Thing number one being that you fucking killed this. Like, oh my God, I didn't know this piece that you had given them your process, you had given them the questionnaire.
You had shown them what you were doing with the client going into Florida. And I love that I talk about Florida as if it's like a whole event. Florida as a state is just a whole, Florida is, yeah, I don't live there. You live there. But you had done all of this run up into the conference and [00:30:00] they got to see so much of how you work and what you do.
And on the other hand, I can also see that you gave them so much and they're so obsessed with what you create and like being inside of your world that they still wanted more. Yeah, that's exactly what happened is they still wanted more from you in order to know how to run the kind of business that you are running.
And so that's the only feedback that they have to give is like, I wish she had taught to this. I wish she had taught to that because you're so fucking good.
Shannon Griffin: Did they cry? I love you. Like literally I needed to hear, I just needed to hear another, that's part of the reason I wanted to talk through it with you, because we've talked way more than the attendees.
And I have, and again, I'm not trying to do this to be like, was I in the wrong? But I feel like talking about this stuff. 'cause I wanna keep teaching, but I need to know my boundaries and I need to know, do I wanna do another le led shoot or do I say, look, [00:31:00] I'm like Elizabeth Messina, if you wanna do a shoot with me, you gotta book one-on-one.
Like I have to see now where I wanna go with this because I don't want people feeling this way at the end of the day. And the other hard part. Really hard part that both people commented on is I wish that Shannon would have talked to the model more about the fact that these were gonna be shown. And we did.
We had many conversations. I was like, are you comfortable with it? And the thing is, after she saw what some of the people are posting, she's like, I may not be comfortable showing this much of myself. And what am I saying? I have to pull back. You have to. Right, but I also understand the frustration 'cause now what are they gonna use for their portfolio?
So it's like a lose lose situation
Jodi: as women in this business and in this industry as two women who both shoot boudoir. We both know how important client privacy is. Yes. Especially as women and for women to have their bodies on the internet. There is so much that that's a [00:32:00] whole other podcast that we could do in that right there.
Very protective. Like very protective. You are even more so protective than I think anybody else I've ever like. Listen to or learn from or anything like that because you are so attuned. You are so aware of what you are creating and what you were putting out onto the internet. And I know you, Shannon, I know that even if you had booked a model instead of using one of the other girls, by the way, she basically was a model.
Oh my gosh. She killed it fricking. It's stunning and gorgeous. And she did so incredibly good during that shoot. And honestly, some of the stuff that was happening, I was screaming in the background. I was like, shoot that. Shoot that. Did you guys get that? Hold on. Get this thing. Like I was literally Chris Jenner, she killed it.
Literally in the audience with a recording. Be like, you're doing great sweetie. You're doing great. I'm done. I'm done. That shoot was so hot and so incredible. But I know that had you hired a model for that and had [00:33:00] that model retracted her consent to have that on the internet, yes. You would've done the same exact thing.
Mm-hmm. Even if there was conversations and contracts and all the things I have
Shannon Griffin: con, I have every client sign a contract, but I tell them, if you ever want just take off, that doesn't.
Jodi: I do the same thing, same thing before I ever post anything. Even if it doesn't show anything. Yes. I still send a text, Hey, I'm about to post this.
Are you okay with this being on the internet? Everybody gets consent, consent, consent, consent. And we all know the minute that that consent is revoked, it's revoked, period. In of story. And I, I know that the attendees know that too, but we can also understand their frustration Yes. Of that. And I, I can, so I don't know what the answer is.
Thank you. There is none. There is none. Right. Because the person whose body it is, she gets to control that period. Period. End of story. There's nothing that anybody can do. It's the same exact thing. If I did a photo shoot in my studio that was [00:34:00] nails and just fucking phenomenal. If she says no, she says no.
I had, it would so much.
Shannon Griffin: I had that Orthodox, Orthodox Jewish woman who she's like, even your girlfriends can't see this. So Muse had to shut down the lab for like a couple of hours and have an all woman team print her stuff. 'cause she is Orthodox. Yeah. And 5 10, 1 of the most beautiful women I've ever seen, goddess, some of my favorite photos will never, I couldn't even show a friend.
Like, we'll never see the light of day. Like ever. Like that's the business. Yes.
Jodi: And that's the business. And my, my heart does hurt for the attendees who can't put those photos. Me too. But it doesn't hurt enough for me to say like. We're gonna ignore the rights of this woman.
Shannon Griffin: Yeah. Right, right. Okay. I just wish I knew the answer.
'cause boudoir is just so tricky with that. Like, I don't, even if I used a model, she could retract, [00:35:00] like I've had people a year later that are like, uh, I'm a teacher now. Do you think you could get those pulled from Google, do you think? And I'm like, yes, 100%. I'll take it off my website. I'll take it off my social.
Yeah. There's no portfolio that's more important than their privacy. So I just don't know what the answer is. I guess there's not, but it's like going in, people need to know, like, and I wish, like I would've, I, that's the part that I'm like, oh, I should've thought about this more 'cause I would've done more covered.
But the issue is the model wanted a lot of nudity, so it's like, yeah. She wanted it. She's like, I, I feel better nude than I do in like laundry and stuff as she as she should.
Jodi: Because I saw that. I know. I was like, your
Shannon Griffin: boobs are a nice egg.
Jodi: No, I think sadly there's no answer to that and honestly, it's, it's just part of the boudoir business and there's, there's no answer.
Even as business owners, there's no answer to it. Whenever we can't show something that we really wanna show because it's so beautiful. So I think we have to let that one go. But the one thing that I was gonna say that would change, like if you ever wanted to do. [00:36:00] Like a shooting situation like this at a conference.
Again, I think it's also something that you learned here is very easily rectifiable On the next one to just say like, Hey guys, I know we've been talking for, you know, these last few weeks. You've seen my whole process behind the scenes. I just wanna let you know that. Once I get to shooting, I'm very connected.
I'm very aware. I'm very attuned with the client and it's not a overly teaching experience. I'm not gonna talk a lot. I'm gonna show you how I move. I want you to study how I move versus studying how I speak. And that's it. That's how I
Shannon Griffin: wanna watch a shoot. I think the issue is that I should have gotten more feedback before to see how other people approach it.
But it's still what, like I don't know how to ex again, I don't know how to explain. You have to be you. That's the thing that makes it, we talked about it the day before about how you would, I'm not never gonna name names, but you attended a workshop and the photographer, like you were about to take a picture and the photographer was like, no.
And it like totally rocked your world. And I was [00:37:00] watching these, it like made
Jodi: me cry in front of 11 people. Like,
Shannon Griffin: can you, and I was watching these women photograph this model and they were all doing such a phenomenal job and all of them were taking the leap. Like there was no one that was like. I don't know, like, and there were a couple of people that asked me questions and I came in and I like, yeah, I watched that happen.
But I don't know, it's just so hard. 'cause that's just my personality. I'm like, I wanna watch you, like you're the artist, do your thing. Like, yeah, I wanna like, I'm here if you need to. I don't know. I don't know. I don't wanna harp on this, but it was just like, yeah, wanted to talk about it. 'cause there's so many people that I've attend conferences and do the shoots and photographers and the attendees.
Like, I want both sides to be kind of talked
Jodi: about. I think my, I think my biggest takeaway from all of this too is that I just really love for the listeners today to hear how much you care, how much you wanna deliver, how much you wanna make sure that people are getting their money's worth for things.
Because these conversations aren't, they're never privy to them. Like when you're choosing who it is that you're gonna do [00:38:00] education with, they never get to hear this conversation between the two people. Hashing it out on how we have to balance. What we're doing in our business and how we have to also balance, like delivering at a conference just like that.
Yeah. So if anything, I love that. I don't know that we sort of pulled this curtain back and everybody got to listen to you sort of like process through it and what hurts your heart about it. Because like, you aren't in a place where you're just like, oh, well this person wasn't happy and that sucks and this is why that sucks.
You're not that type of person. You're like, no, like I care about this person. I care that they got what they wanted to get out of this. And so you're, I know you're doing a ton on the back end of things that you're sending some other education pieces and you're giving, I'm gonna email them tomorrow more from that, which is even the fact that you were in communication with them before the conference, like that's above and beyond.
So what you're doing right now, there's not words for above and beyond. You're above and beyond the above and beyond. Like I,
Shannon Griffin: [00:39:00] it,
Jodi: it really is incredible how you. Handle all of this. But what's also incredible, listen to this segue right here. This is probably gonna be a part two because we've already gone longer into this, but it's talking about how incredible you are and how incredible your business is.
Episode 15 Outro: Alright, my beautiful posers. We are going to have to hit pause right here because as to be expected, Shannon and I could talk for hours and hours and hours on end. We simply cannot help ourselves. I am obsessed with this woman, my girl crush rages on next week you are going to get into even like to even have a more.
Soul of the information that is inside this woman's brain is seriously a gift. We are going to get far more than that. She is going to go into the process that she uses with her clients while she is shooting boudoir. She is a visionary. She is such a dream. I [00:40:00] cannot wait for you guys to just dive in even further with her next week.
So until then, bye for now.
Outro: Okay, so that is a wrap on this episode of the Posers Podcast. If you loved it, please subscribe, rate, and review because honestly, algorithms are needier than all of our ex-boyfriends combined. And ladies, I need all the help I can get. If you've got thoughts, questions, love letters, even hate mail, please send them my way.
I actually read every single one of them. So until next time, stapled, stay messy and don't let the bullshit win. Tits up. Ears open and go build something. Incredible. Bye for now, friends.
